How to Leverage Audio In Your Business for Visibility with Kim Tradewell

Racheal Cook: When you think about getting more visibility for your business, the first thing that probably comes to mind is things you actually see that are visible. However, I have found one of the best ways to get my message out there and to expand my reach about the work that I do has been through audio.

Audio is hands down one of my favorite ways to get more visibility for my business even though they can't see it. The people who are listening to me on a podcast interview or who have Promote Yourself to CEO in their earbuds get a deep dive, a true feeling of what I have to offer. I will continue to love audio until the end of time. That is why I'm so excited today to have Kim Tradewell jump on and talk with me about all the different creative ways you can leverage audio to get more visibility for your business.

Are you ready to grow from stressed-out solopreneur to competent CEO? You're in the right place. I'm your host, Racheal Cook, and I've spent more than 15 years helping women entrepreneurs sustainably scale their businesses. If you're serious about building a sustainable business, it's time to put the strategy, systems, and support in place to make it happen. Join me each week for candid conversations about stepping into your role as CEO, the hard lessons learned along the way, and practical profitable strategies to grow a sustainable business without the hustle and burnout.

Hey there, CEOs. Welcome back to another episode here on Promote Yourself to CEO all about what is currently working in the world of visibility and getting more people to hear about you and the work that you do. Well, as I shared in the introduction for this episode, audio has hands down been one of the most powerful ways I have ever found to get the word out about my business.

I have had a podcast for I want to say at least over 10 years now, probably closer to 12. I think the first podcast I launched way back when my brand was originally the Yogipreneur, I had Yogipreneur radio, I did a bunch of episodes under that, and then I launched the Get Fired Up & Focused Podcast, which turned into Uncomplicate Your Business, which now is Promote Yourself to CEO. So I've had a long track record of using a podcast.

I have found that creating my own podcast is a great way to really solidify my thought leadership, it allows for more long-form content, which allows for a lot more depth and nuance in the conversations I'm having around small business, and hands down will always, always love doing this.

However, the growth of my podcast hasn't just been the podcast itself. There's been a lot of other things that have gone into getting more people to find my podcast, to listen to my podcast. As things have continued to go on over the years, I have just seen so many creative new ways to leverage audio in your business.

I'm really excited for this conversation because Kim has a lot of great ideas to help you, not even if you have a podcast, you don't have to have a podcast to get value from this but to think about how you can creatively use audio marketing. If you are someone who likes to go deep into your content, if you want to have a more high-level conversation with people and not just feel like you're being drilled down to 1-minute or 30-second sound bites, then audio might be a great opportunity for you and there are so many different ways we're going to dive into for how you could potentially use it to attract more people into your business. With that, I am so excited to have Kim Tradewell of May and James Co., jumping on with me today. Let's get into it.

Hey there, Kim. Welcome to Promote Yourself to CEO. I'm so glad you're here with me today.

Kim Tradewell: I'm so happy you invited me. I'm happy to be here.

Racheal Cook: Well, we got connected and you started sharing all of the amazing ways that you have been seeing people get really creative and innovative with audio when it comes to getting more visibility for your business. That is the theme of this entire series this month on Promote Yourself to CEO is talking about visibility, especially because there's been this decline in a lot of organic visibility strategies.

We've seen that a lot of social platforms are getting harder and harder to get that organic reach. We are seeing that a lot of Attract marketing strategies are really changing. SEO is going down. We're seeing advertising is always up and down. When you mentioned audio being used in creative innovative ways, I was like, “Okay, I want to hear more about this.”

Before we dive into all things audio, can you share a little bit about yourself and your business, what you're up to in the world?

Kim Tradewell: Yeah, for sure. My name is Kim, obviously, my company is called May and James Co., and we really just specialize in creating audio assets that make sense for you and your world because podcasting is amazing but it's not for everyone but audio can be. That's where I like to lean into.

I love working one-on-one, creating a strategy around what that looks like because if there isn't a strategy piece, then it is a thing on the side of your desk that you're having fun with, and there's nothing wrong with having a hobby podcast but if you can have it be a part of your business and your marketing plan, it can do some amazing things for your world.

That's what I do and I love the work. It's so fun to meet all these amazing humans in this online space and I've really, really been fortunate to work with, like I said, some amazing people and to see what they do and to become a part of the world. Even meeting you, Racheal, I've been following you for a while and it's just so fun to be able to connect and have a conversation more about what we do.

Racheal Cook: I love it. I love that when it comes to the world of audio, I think a lot of people have this preconceived idea that the only real way to do that is to have a podcast. But podcasting isn't for everyone. I have had some form of podcast since about 2014-2015. I think it's definitely an undertaking a lot of people don't want to tackle that's why so many people will think they want to start one but they quit after like 10 episodes.

But when you started sharing some cool, innovative things about how people can use audio, I was really intrigued because I know for me and my business, podcasting is different from other forms of marketing or forms of media. Because if we're going to watch a video, we have to have a screen in front of us. If we're going to have a YouTube channel, be on TikTok, or anything like that, we either have to have a computer, a phone, or some sort of device in front of us. But audio is different.

Kim Tradewell: Audio is so cool.

Racheal Cook: I get these conversations with people, literally, I just had a conversation with a potential client today and they're like, “I feel like I already know you because I've been listening to you so much,” so if there's other ways for people to get that response from potential clients, that's why I'm super excited about this conversation. I'd love for you to share what are some innovative things you're seeing that don't take the long-term commitment of a podcast.

Kim Tradewell: Yeah. I'm going to really hope to stretch people's minds a little bit to think a little bit outside of the box because you're right, I think we're just starting to scratch the surface of what is possible. A traditional podcast is discoverable. A private feed is a unique link, which makes it really special because you can design it in a way that really almost creates a sense of urgency if you want to your audio into what you're doing.

Think of all these ways as we go through them. I have them in categories and we can break them out a bit but I just wanted everybody to know that the difference between a public and a private feed is that the public feed is discoverable, the private is not. You have to send a special link to someone.

When we get into the marketing part, I can't wait to dive into that a little bit. But let's talk educational content first. Your content adds value. You spend a lot of time creating an offer or a course that you've put a lot of time and energy into, the whole premise behind it is whoever signs up, you want them to be successful and you want them to complete it.

The people that I'm talking to in this online space, like you said already too, Racheal, we're getting tired because we want the information but we need to be able to consume it on our terms, whether we're going for a walk, prepping food, doing the drives with the kids, or doing the drives period. We're all multitasking, we're all trying to consume the information when we can, where we can, so why not create your course content, your educational content with that audio-only piece available?

I think if you are not creating it with that in mind, you're missing a huge opportunity to increase your completion rates and to help the people in your world that are trusting you in first signing up and paying the dollar. Think of educational content as more than just courses too. Think about it as group programs and memberships, certifications, masterminds, mini-courses, book chapters. There are so many ways in the educational content world that you can create an audio-only version of that.

We are never going to take away from video, video is always going to be a beast but audio is a huge supplement and a huge added value to what you're already producing. That's the first one, educational content, it's huge and we're all doing it.

Racheal Cook: Yeah. I think this is such a huge thing because actually, we have a private feed in our community for The CEO Collective and then all of our individual standalone courses also have audio only. People can download it. Because they're just smaller containment situations. But when we have a program like The CEO Collective, we actually have I think two different audio feeds, like private podcasts that people can listen to.

We have one that basically has just all the trainings. Everything's organized so they can go in there, find the training they're looking for, and get that specific audio. That's in one specific podcast feed. Then the second is just for our group calls. People love this. They love this because one, it means if there's something they need to learn as they're implementing their strategy that we've helped them create in their 90-day plan, then they can have multiple ways to just dig into that content and get access to it as quickly as easily as possible.

But we also have a lot of people, we have clients all over the world and for them to be able to get access to those calls, often I have so many people, the call happens right in the middle of the night because I'm on the opposite side of the world, it happens while I'm trying to pick up my kids, or whatever it might be and they religiously listen to this.

It's such a huge asset because if they can't make the call live, they at least know it's there for them and they get tremendous value just hearing other people's challenges and questions and then how we coach around it.

Kim Tradewell: Yeah, huge missed opportunity if you're not including that 100%. The other piece that I want to bring out with that is if you have a membership that allows for those private feeds, make sure it's accessible on their favorite media player. Don't make it difficult for them to find that because I have had other clients as well have memberships in a certain portal and they have to access it through that portal link on their computer.

Again, it's great that you have it but if I'm running and I'm doing all the other things and I still want to consume that, I want it as easy as possible for me to be able to consume it.

Racheal Cook: Yep, exactly.

Kim Tradewell: That's educational content. Think about events next. What if you looked at events a little differently? Like you said, live is amazing. You will never get away from that excitement that drives events. But again, not everybody can make a live call and that's another reason why I dove into the world of audio is because we were creating these educational presenters bringing in these huge presenters into our community and we weren't getting the numbers showing up.

It's not that the people didn't want to hear the information, they just weren't able to get there in the evening or whenever we made the event possible. Creating audio-only snippets of those educational presentations is something that we dove into. You could do Q&A calls, like you said, one-on-one calls, group coaching summits, retreats even.

I have someone in my world that just recently told me she did it for her high-level high-ticket one-on-one coaching. They threw in questions Monday through Friday and she was able to record a private audio feed specific to that question to that client in real-time. It wasn't like something she stewed over, she answered it quickly, got her the information, and it's going over super well because again, it's still showing that client that you care, that you're providing the knowledge but you're doing it in a different way.

I love group coaching programs, I love one-on-one calls but to fill my calendar full of those on top of client work and on top of life is just overwhelming. It's a little too much so how can you make that information and I guess deliver it in a different unique way? Private feeds is a fantastic way to think about doing events in a different way.

Racheal Cook: Okay. I have two points to make about this and to add on. One is there's this huge trend that I'm seeing towards asynchronous ways to connect and communicate with people. Asynchronous meaning we don't have to be live, we don't have to attend at a specific time and place. This idea is going to be revolutionary for a lot of businesses because this is one of the biggest reasons why people don't sign up for stuff is because it doesn't work for their calendar.

They don't sign up for your workshop, they don't sign up for your course, they don't sign up for your group-coaching program, and even one-on-one work, I'm seeing a lot of people develop more asynchronous offers. We've seen another variation of audio that could be like a Voxer coaching situation or a similar type of plat where it's the voice memo.

But what I could see something like more of a private podcast being helpful is just the ability to more clearly organize the information because something like a Voxer, those messages will get buried so fast, it's really hard to go backwards and find something if you want to reference it again. But if it's more of a private podcast feed, you could put a more specific label and tagging around it to go back and find that if you ever needed it again. I think that's really smart.

Kim Tradewell: Yeah. I'm sitting over here nodding and I'm trying to put myself on mute so I don't over speak you because I get excited when I talk audio, I'm kind of a nerd when I talk about this stuff. But it's so true, and unless you are paying for that level on Voxer, the premium level, it disappears, and then what?

It's a way to deliver premium content on the go and accessible to those clients that are paying. We just want to stand out from what is the norm and create our own norm like what works for the people in our world, what are they saying, listen to them, and try it out. That's why we're entrepreneurs. Everything's trial and error and if we're not trying things differently to meet our client’s needs, then I don't think we're doing what we're doing justice.

Racheal Cook: Yeah, and making things more convenient is a huge way to stand out in the market. It's massive. I absolutely love that. Now the second thing I wanted to piggyback on is the fact that with private feeds, like you said, they have to have a specific link. One of the biggest challenges as a podcaster is getting people to make the shift off the podcast platform into your email list.

One of the ways we've done that in the past has definitely been like adding content upgrades or having specific free offers that people go sign up for. If we're running the Fired Up & Focused Challenge, we'll promote that on the podcast and hopefully, people will go check it out. But this is another great opportunity to grow your list in a more specific way where there is that separation. They have to sign up for it in order to get access to it.

I'm thinking about how the combination of those two things, like the exclusivity of having to sign up for this specific feed, which automatically in my mind, the minute people have to take an action step, it separates the wheat from the chaff. It's an indicator of interest level, it's an indicator that this person is very interested in what you have to share.

You can put that available for free and they just opt in for it, or like you said, this could be access to your training, this could be access to your retreat, this could be access to your workshops, even a conference, a speaker series, or something along those lines, you can put paywalls that they have to go through in order to get access to it.

These two ideas, the idea of asynchronous, you don't have to show up live, you'll get access to it on your schedule, and then you can make it available free or paid but these are people who are probably a little more engaged than if they were just freely finding all this information out.

Kim Tradewell: Yes. That leads into my next category, which is marketing, and boy, have we had some fun playing in this world. I want you to think about how people sign up right now to be a part of your world. Whether it's a live webinar, a PDF checklist, what are you adding them value for free to get into your world, and how can you do that through a private audio feed?

People are playing with audio, I call them almost like mini podcasts, in a really unique way. Here's an example, if you're niche is teaching your clients about the power of LinkedIn, why not provide a mini lead magnet, a mini private podcast that they have to sign up for just like they would for the free checklist? You can get them into your world through that email marketing.

But what they get through the email and through signing up is access to this private link that dives into all the amazing ways and a mini version, it's almost like a mini workshop through private audio feed that you believe in the importance and value of why you should use LinkedIn for your business.

You go through the intro and a few separate little mini podcasts and then you summarize it with a neat little bow saying, “If you want more information, if you would like to dive deeper into this world, these are all the offers and different ways that you can work with me.”

The cool thing about doing lead magnets this way is that we have access to data. We can look at the data, which podcasts are people leaning into more, which podcasts are driving more engagement and more interest, and then you can revamp the lead magnet again into those areas and trial and error it until you get one that you know is performing really well and then set it up as an evergreen lead magnet.

You can do it way quicker than you can developing like slide decks and video, all that video component. It's a private audio feed. Once you figure out how to do production in a quick easy fashion, it's really quite relatively easy to set up, play with, and then see what the success rate is.

So many unique ways that you can drive traffic back into your world and have you stand out as a leader in your industry. Because like you said before, the power of hearing someone's voice, what they're saying, and the excitement, you can't get that through a normal checklist.

Racheal Cook: Yeah. PDFs don't really express emotion. They don't emote very well. It even makes me think as a podcaster, I'm going back in my head as you're saying these things, all these ideas are hitting me, and one is the idea of this lead magnet. I'm like, “I just did a couple of series that I got such great feedback back on, I could pull those out, like the series we just did this year on client experience, I got amazing feedback on that one. I think it was like four or five episodes. I could pull that out, make it a private series, run traffic to it, and build my email list while doing that.”

It's something one, I've already created. I've already done that content. I really don't have to do anything other than put it on a feed and maybe make an intro to. That’s going on the list.

Kim Tradewell: Yeah, totally. Create a new little landing page and have fun with it because that's the idea behind these is it's a great introductory to audio, the platform of audio, and how you can use it and if you enjoy doing it because I've even found the clients that we've worked with even just through this lead magnet portion, working with someone to get it, it's not hard to figure out what you want to create, it's just hitting record and getting used to actually recording your voice and hearing it.

We're our own worst enemies and that's what holds us back a lot of the times instead of just trying and playing with it. The only way you get better is through practicing and playing with a platform. It's up to you whether you choose blogging, video, or audio but you gotta pick one, you gotta dive into it, and then you need to explore all the amazing ways that you can use it.

Repurposing is another great way like you said. I worked with another client recently who's an artist and she wanted to have more of an audio version of what she does. She's in a very visual field. We started looking at what is all the content that she already had. Most of us have a ton of content already developed. It's just figuring out how we can pull it back, strip it down, and repurpose it into an audio format.

Racheal Cook: I love that. I think that's great. I'm also even thinking like, “Oh, God, I'm so excited about this because so much of my marketing strategy has been built around audio.” I do so many podcast interviews knowing that it grows my own podcast but the idea of sending people to a private podcast to grow my email list, now suddenly, it's an all-audio ecosystem and that just makes so much sense to me as someone who's already using audio. Oh, my God. I'm going to have so many ideas.

I'm sorry, Amber, my director of operations who's going to get a big old list from me about the things that I think we can do so quickly because we already have the assets sitting there.

Kim Tradewell: Yep. So cool. You can also use private feeds for team onboarding. Onboarding new clients, do it through a private audio feed. People love when you can give them a little bit more of that high-touch feeling like, “You actually care enough to leave me a private feed? What? That's crazy.” Could you imagine hiring a new staff member and having them walk through an audio feed of onboarding them instead of a boring PDF again?

We're just trying to think of new and exciting ways that you can really create excitement around whatever you're working on, whatever that project is, or that piece in your business is, and how you can create an audio feed to go with it.

The other cool way is niche specific. I can only imagine how much fun this could be for some businesses and organizations. But think about daily meditations that could go out. Daily meditations, cooking instructions, travel guides, tech tutorials. Oh, my gosh. That one alone just gets me excited because it's just so unique and different in the approach that we're trying to take.

Racheal Cook: Actually, I have a perfect case study for that because my friend Katie Krimitsos who owns the Women's Meditation Network launched that after coming to the very first CEO Retreat, and since she launched that, she has spun out of what was originally just a channel like a podcast dedicated to meditations for women to, again, seeing what was working and then she pulled out sleep meditations, stress meditations, those all became private and she was able to put a price tag on some of these, bundles of meditations.

But a lot of it came from taking that core channel where she was just testing all these different ideas and literally making meditations as people were saying, “Can you make a meditation for this, for that, or whatever?” As she saw the interest in what worked and what didn't, she was able to develop all these additional meditation podcasts. Some are free, some are paid, some are private, and some are public. It is one of the, if not the biggest meditation network right now on iTunes, it's amazing, or on Apple Podcasts.

Kim Tradewell: That is so amazing. I'll have to totally check it out. I just get excited about what is possible when we just sit back and take a bigger lens of what we're doing in our business and how to make it more accessible, how to answer people's problems and questions and add value in different unique ways. Audio is just scratching the surface of what you can do.

Racheal Cook: Yep. I love that.

Kim Tradewell: That's awesome.

Racheal Cook: So good. Okay, now that I have a thousand different ideas, and I think anybody listening to this might be the same way, we just gave you a wide range of ways that you could maybe leverage audio in your business, whether it's creating lead magnets, even creating offers, adding value to your offers, or amplifying things you're already doing, I think the next question a lot of people have is, “How complicated is this?”

Because sometimes that becomes another sticking point, not just getting used to hearing your own self talk, but how do you actually make this happen? Is it super complicated? Is it super techy? Do you need a lot of equipment?

Kim Tradewell: No. I think we overanalyze absolutely everything that we do. To keep it as simplified as possible, think of it as a three-part framework, I'll start with that. Developing a strategy, like I said before, is super important, knowing what assets you're going to dive into, what the topic is, and then breaking it up into tangible pieces of what you can actually speak about. Because that's the other thing too is that you don't want to overcomplicate each episode.

The cool thing about a private feed is that there are no rules around podcasting in general, around audio assets in general so make it work for you. But in a private feed, I usually see them from 3 minutes in length to 10 to 15. Don't overthink this. It doesn't have to be like a traditional podcast that's 30 minutes long, 45 minutes long, or longer. Think of it as bite-sized pieces.

Concentrate on one topic, one value add for every podcast episode. Introduce what you're talking about, hit the value, summarize, and lead into what the next episode is going to be about. When you're structuring your outline, really be thinking and thoughtful of your customer journey and what they're going to be listening to make it as exciting as possible for them to keep showing back up for the next one.

The next part is just the implementation phase. Now that you've got this all this info lined out and what you're going to talk about, just hit record and do it in a way that allows you to not have to do a bunch of production. There are still fun ways that you can tweak it to make it studio sound quality, having a quieter space to be able to record in is really important.

Try not to have lots of fans on, air conditioning, or heat on, whatever's going on or your dog coming and going because you just really do want to add it in a value-added way, so creating audio that is easy to listen to as possible but it doesn't have to be overproduced. That's the other thing I think we get all hung up on, “Oh, I have to hire somebody. It's going to be hours.”

You can do a lot of this yourself but with the right platforms. If you want to up the game, purchase a microphone. But you don't have to. The headset that I'm wearing right now from Apple works fine. I know someone that created her whole mini-series in lead magnet and did very well just from her phone and from her microphone and the headset that came with it. Don't overcomplicate it. Just make sure that you're in a quiet space, there's not a lot of windows, and it's not a huge ceiling and you get all the echo and all that stuff.

Develop, implement, and then market. Just like everything else in your business, if you build it, they will not come, you need to talk about it. You need to promote it. If it's a lead magnet, what is a customer journey to get to the lead magnet, to get excited about listening to it? The cool thing too, and I know I just tapped into it a little bit, but you can add excitement and urgency around date-specific, just like you would a live webinar.

If your live webinar, think about it, is only going to be open for so many days or a week and then you're going to close it and then have it available for only so many days until the cart closes, you can do that with a private audio feed as well. That can drive some urgency when you're thinking about how do I want to market this. Those are the three things. Just develop, implement, market, that little launch phase, and what is the long-term growth piece.

Are you going to trial and error a few if you're doing this as a lead magnet? But again, I offered so many different ways that you can use it. You don't have to trial and error everything, but it is a great way to think about being thoughtful about what's next, what your growth phase looks like for your business, and all the offers and month-to-month or quarter-to-quarter, however you so choose to work in your business.

Racheal Cook: I'll piggyback on that again, what we're doing right now collaborating is I think a huge way forward for things like this, whether it is collaborating by going on a mini-podcast tour with the topic being whatever your private audio feed is. I find that when you create assets like that, it becomes a great talking point when you go different places.

For example, my Fired Up & Focused Challenge that I've been running for literally all 10 years and I still run it, it's automated right now. Every once in a while, we'll do a big live push for it but that has become something that I can pull out a multitude of topics out of that opt-in, out of that free thing, and I can go do a lot of podcast interviews. I can reach out to my peers, my colleagues, and ask them to share about it. That can drive my audience growth really, really quickly by collaborating with people.

I think that's, to me, one of the biggest things when it comes to amplifying something like this is getting people in your corner who are excited about what that content is and you can provide value to their community, you can grow your community at the same time, and get that content out there, whether it's for a standalone private feed, a conference or speaker series that you're running on it. There are so many ways you can take pieces of that and now go out and collaborate with people to drive the growth of this.

Kim Tradewell: Yeah. You started off this podcast with talking about how organic marketing has changed. It's still here and it still can work but you have to create it and be actively engaged in creating that organic marketing. All those ways that you said and suggested are 100% on point. Reach out, network as much as possible. We are in the game of business relationships with people. People at the end of the day are who we are trying to reach and so how can you make yourself as relatable and accessible as possible?

Racheal Cook: I love that. For anyone who is interested in getting support or learning more about how to leverage audio, how can people reach out and connect with you?

Kim Tradewell: Absolutely. Find me on @mayandjamesco on Instagram or my website is mayandjamesco.com, reach out, let me know if you have any questions about what you heard today. I would love to know how you think you're going to use audio in your world in some capacity. I get excited about how there are so many unique ways to bring value through audio. It's pretty fun.

Racheal Cook: I love it. Thank you so much, Kim, for joining me. I have a thousand ideas already so I'm sure y'all are about to see some private audio feeds rolling out over here. I just really appreciate the opportunity to have you share and also to pick your brain just a little bit.

Kim Tradewell: Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on.

Racheal Cook: Well, I hope you are walking away from this episode with a lot of new ideas. This has definitely brought up some great new ideas for me, and honestly, it's helped encourage me to sit down and finish creating the private podcast series that has been on my list for a while now. In fact, we did the photo shoot for the Messy in the Middle Podcast Series over a year ago because life, and a bunch of other circumstances, those types of projects get pushed to the back, and now I'm going to make sure I get it done.

I'm going to try to actually get it done before this episode goes live. I'm challenging myself to that. Thankfully, I just found my portable mic so I can make that happen even if I'm not coming into the office. I can't wait to hear from you all. What audio marketing opportunities are you looking at for your small business?

Remember, you could have a podcast and layer these different ideas like a private podcast, a speaker series, or all of these different things. You could layer that on top of your podcast as a way to amplify it. You could use it after your podcast as a way to transition people from your main podcast to a specific one that is leading them towards an offer, getting people onto your email list so that you can more clearly and efficiently communicate with them.

You could even use audio as a way to connect with your clients and that's something I've done for years and years and years. I hear from people all the time how grateful they are that we have a private podcast for all of our clients inside of The CEO Collective.

I want to hear from you. Make sure you're heading over to Instagram. Tag me @racheal.cook. Let me know your ahas, your insights, your takeaways, and hold me to it if I don't have Messy in the Middle, at least the first couple of episodes up by now, I am going to give myself the accountability by publicly saying here you can reach out to me and go, “Hey, Rach, where's the Messy in the Middle? You said you were going to get it done.” Nothing like a little public accountability on that front.

Thank you so much for listening. If you love this episode and you're enjoying the series, please make sure you're letting us know. If you have more questions, let's continue the conversation over on Instagram. I'll talk to you next time.