Authentic Growth Beyond Revenue with Michelle Mercurio

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Racheal Cook: Hey there, CEOs. I'm so excited for today's guests because she is one of my favorite people on the planet, one of my besties, and I'm so excited to share Michelle with everyone on the pod. So welcome, Michelle. I'm so glad to have you.

Michelle Mercurio: Thank you. I am so glad to be here.

Racheal Cook: Well, you and I have gotten to know each other really well over the last few years.

So I want everybody to get a little bit of a glimpse into why I think you're one of the most magical people in my life, but to get started, you're such a multifaceted person. Like you have so many different iterations in your career path and so many different interests and so many different hobbies.

I'm curious for you to start by sharing, how have you brought all of these things together, like your work in branding your work as a community builder, you being a witchy woman, how have you brought all of these things together to create the business that you have now? Can you share a little bit about that?

Michelle Mercurio: Yeah, I think that. Everything that I do comes back to two things. Uh, number one, who we are, and then number two, how we relate to one another. So I think a lot of the work that I do is, you know, classified as identity work, you know, who are, who are you? What drives you? What are your values? What is it that you are really great at, and what is it that you put out into the world?

And then also how does that help other people? So I think, you know, I, I have a, a history of working in corporate. I have done my own thing. I have been a teacher, uh, I've, you know, done the witchy things like you said, everything from tarot to retreats to really hosting. Mindful events for people who identify as evolving, right?

People who are in transition, people who are looking to not necessarily level up, but maybe change their direction. Uh, people who are moving from. One way of being into another. And so I do have that a, a broad background. I have background in communications, I have a background in education, human resources.

But really when I think about it, at the crux of everything, I think about who we are and then how we relate. So that's how it all interconnects. No matter what I do, I come back to those two foundational things.

Racheal Cook: And I think this is something that a lot of people need to hear because. I feel like, especially as small business owners and entrepreneurs we're told very early on, like, the only way to make a business is to find a niche and Yeah, exactly.

And, um, create this very narrow definition of like who you are and what your work is about. But you've gone so against that traditional advice. And what's been interesting is the people that you attract, naturally attract, just as you move through the world, all have. The value of growth, but it's not necessarily growth as related to like revenue growth.

Do you know what I mean? Like this is something that I really love about being in your world is it's this growth in more of a. Curiosity and wanting to be more aligned and wanting to be more yourself. Maybe the revenue growth comes along with it. Maybe there's growth in other areas, and I think that's such an amazing space to be in with people who value that type of growth.

This is 'cause it's more, it's deeper, it's more interesting. It's more. Human in a lot of ways.

Michelle Mercurio: Yeah. I think we're taught that growth is an external pursuit, and a lot of the time it is an internal one. We are taught that like, oh, we've achieved this. Now go here now go here now. Like we, we, we think of growth as a trajectory as.

Up as opposed to around. And when I look at this, it's not that revenue can't grow with it. It's not that your team can't grow, you know, it's not that you aren't gaining different perspectives or evolving. It's truly not. Somebody else's ladder. I think that's what it really is. Growth is bigger than a ladder, right?

It goes up, it goes down, it goes all around. I often think of it as a spiral, right? Sometimes we come back to, we feel at the exact, you know, that we're at the exact same point that we were before, and a lot of people describe that as going backward, or I've taken a step back, or I, you know, have fallen back into old habits.

And I think that's not true. I think that when we look at this. Especially as entrepreneurs, as people who are building businesses. We don't ever go back. We do go forward, right? Like [00:05:00] time, time isn't real first of all. And second of all, time isn't necessarily as linear as as as we like it to believe. And yet we are bound by a calendar.

We're bound by years. We're bound by the finitude of living, right? So I think we do go forward no matter what, but. I mean, maybe not. Maybe there's, there's other parts of that that we don't yet understand. So I know that's a little more esoteric and a little bit more out there when I'm thinking about it, but how does that relate to building a business?

It build, you build a business because you are constantly curious. You can realign. I mean, when you were giving your description, you, you basically listed like some of my very top values, right? Align to who you are, lead from there. Don't do stuff you hate. Right? Don't constantly feel like you have to be somewhere else, and then look at your own trajectory and what it is that your gifts, um, align to, and then go do those things.

Racheal Cook: I think it takes so much courage for a lot of us to do that though, because we are all raised in this. Culture where we all wanna belong, right? And in belonging and trying to fit in, we kind of. Smooth out the edges, right? We, we stop being so ourselves and we try to fit in by being more like everybody else.

But as a small business owner, that's one of the most dangerous things you can do because it makes you just like everybody else, which means you don't stand out at all. And learning to embrace that, that you do need to kind of embrace your edges even when they're uncomfortable. Or you feel like I'm the only one doing it like this, or I don't see anybody else who's doing it the way I think I wanna do it.

That really rattles some people, and I know that now you are exploring more work with folks who maybe aren't just small business owners, but are also in, you know, the corporate world and the nonprofit world. They're in these pivotal moments in their life where they're trying to come back to what is authentic for them.

How do you help people right now step into that when they've got probably 40, 50 plus years of conditioning they're now trying to fight against that has told them, check all the boxes, do it the right way. You know, put your head down and this is how we get to here. How are you helping people really embrace their authenticity now?

Michelle Mercurio: Interestingly enough, I am prepping for a conference talk that I'm giving tomorrow. And, uh, you know, I know that, but this is still evergreen information, right? So I just finished doing a bunch of research. I know you and I kind of geek out on like really going into the science behind things and like the history and, and all of that.

So I was doing some work on, you know, kind of the. And neuroplasticity of our brains and mm-hmm. Also how we are conditioned to talk about, like how we return to ourselves and find our authentic voice and why we suppress it and why all of those, and I know this is not exactly what you asked me, but I feel like it's very related.

Um. Why we say the things we say, why we do the things that we do over and over and over again. And you know, this also goes back to, to niching. Right. You know, when we think about our businesses and we're like, oh, we only serve this one tiny little piece, or we only do, you know, these services and really, you know, we're, we're more whole people.

So all of the work that I've ever done, whether it's with. Agencies and small businesses, or whether it's people and personal branding or whether, uh, it's one-on-one coaching, or whether I'm giving a tarot reading or whether I'm doing human design work, or I'm leading a workshop, or even if I'm teaching like in, you know, massive Fortune 100 companies on how to connect authentically and how we belong, which is fundamentally what it is that we want.

Right?

Yeah.

Michelle Mercurio: It's in our DNA we want to belong, and yet. In order to belong, we have been taught that we have to go against all of the things that we think, feel, do, believe, in order to fit in, because that group dynamic, that group conditioning, that group speak, that group think is a real. Thing when it comes to belonging.

So how do you break up with that? How do you actually move out of what it means to, um, kind of sacrifice your own authentic voice in order to belong? Those things don't feel like they actually have to be that far apart, and yet oftentimes when I work with my clients, like I said, even if it's like big companies or individuals.[00:10:00]

We see these two things as completely opposite. How can I be authentic and still fit in, in my, you know, fortune 100 company? How can I be authentic and still, um, make money and sell to people in my own business? Right?

Yeah.

Michelle Mercurio: And then the other question, like flipping that completely around, how can you not.

Right when you are in this place, it is scary because speaking up, understanding where your voice comes from, understanding the things that you value, believe in your stance, your convictions, your own wisdom, right? You are actually really uniquely you and no one else is you. Now. We have a lot of things that connect us as humans, and so we think of ourselves as different, but there's a lot of things that we can root into that sameness.

So your question was along the lines of how do you unlearn. And how do I teach how to like unlearn some of that own that conditioning so that you can either stand out or use your voice in corporate or do um, or maybe not even in corporate, right? Use your voice in your business. How to use your voice in your own household.

Right. And your own family. Yeah. And with the people who have, you know, packed on all of this stuff on top of you, you know, your voice isn't your voice. Your voice is formed by everybody around you. Your culture, your norms, your biases, everything. Right? It's, it's a practice. It isn't an activity and it isn't a destination.

It's truly like, how do you get into. The things you say, the things you believe, the things you do, and start to practice putting that out there. So there's a lot of different methodologies in order to do that. Number one is defining it. I mean, the simplest thing is like defining what do you value? What do you value right now?

What do you even care about? Why are you here?

Racheal Cook: Which sounds like it's the simplest thing, but it's the hardest thing too, right? Yeah. And I think a lot of times, um. If we don't explore that, if we don't take time to explore that, that's where we find people who, you know, are now more than halfway through their career or more than, you know, 10, 20 years into their business.

And they're like, is this it? Is this what I've been working so hard for? Is this what I've been building? Is this what I really want? This isn't what I thought it would look like. And they start to have those, you know, questions about, did I do the right thing? Did I go in the right direction? It does take a lot of deep, like excavation into your values and you know, we talk here about values all the time 'cause they're so important.

Mm-hmm. But I think you can't talk about it enough because so often it's like, just pick five words off of a list of values. And it's like, no, no, no, no. Actually these matters to you. And I think a lot of people are sometimes scared to say that I'm, I love seeing more people being more bold in. Saying what they stand for, even if it is something they feel like might be controversial, but saying what you stand for doesn't always have to be controversial.

It could be, you know, little things.

Michelle Mercurio: It doesn't, it's also personal things. You know, I think when we think about values as like, we're choosing them from a list, right? I just did something for a, an entire group of like financial executives and accountants and people in that world, and I guarantee you almost all of them had like this value of integrity, transparency.

Those words though, meant different things to different people.

Yeah.

Michelle Mercurio: And it's not just one word. You have to know like, what's behind that word for me? You know, one woman, I remember talking to her, she was talking about how, like when her, you know, what that meant to her. The, the value of, um, transparency is it actually stemmed from something that happened with her parents' business when she was a child, right.

And how her parents were cheated. And now what that looks like is, is in her work, why she does the thing that she does is really because she wants people to know transparently what their business looks like behind the scenes so that other people can't. Pull the wool over their eyes, right? And then somebody else who used that, that same value of transparency, what it meant for them was a completely different story.

It was more along the lines of why, um, knowing all of the things about your own business [00:15:00] could help you set your goals for the future, right? So same word, really different. Uh, story behind it. And I think that when we think about the stories that shape us and the the stances and the convictions that we have, that is where the uniqueness comes in.

That's where the niching comes in when you're telling those types of stories. And that's how you get to authentic voice and not just using the word that somebody else wants you to use. And I think when we think about. These words, we are trying to cultivate a sense of belonging. Like, oh, Rachel believes in transparency.

So does Michelle. Right? Or Mic Rachel believes in, you know, doing values work. So does Michelle, but why?

Racheal Cook: Yeah.

Michelle Mercurio: What's the why behind that? What

Racheal Cook: I love that, and I think we could talk about this so long, because it is for days an important conversation. And again, this is like the deep work that. A lot of people gloss over until there's that kind of crisis of confidence or consciousness or whatever that makes them really question why they're doing what they're doing and if they are on the right track.

But I,

Michelle Mercurio: this is the work that I know you wanna shift, but just really quick, this is the work that you do, but also, and the work that I do in different ways.

Racheal Cook: Yeah.

Michelle Mercurio: And you're working with your business owners. You, you know, I know people come to you and they're like, oh, I've got my list. You know, I got my list of things to do.

That is my list of things to do, by the way. Um, but I think that the list of things to do has to be informed by the list of things to be and how you currently and who you currently are and where it is that you want to be headed. Um, I think that that's the difference is, you know, I have to hold this story many times on different podcasts.

You are probably going to die with a to-do list. You know, I keep my mom's to-do list. She died with a to-do list. My aunt died with a to-do list. But if you are just constantly hustling to that next to-do, or like, I've gotta get this done, I've gotta get that done, I've gotta get, you're gonna miss your whole life.

You're gonna miss your life, you're gonna miss your business. You're gonna miss all of the joys because you didn't actually take that step back to be like, oh, do I actually care about this? And why?

Racheal Cook: Exactly. And. That leads to businesses that just the people running them are so disconnected and then they become disconnected from the humans working with them or the humans hiring them, and it just snowballs into all these other challenges.

So doing this deep work, I know of, we've heard a million times that entrepreneurship is a great personal development journey. It can be the personal development journey if you're willing to really dig into the identity work and really dig into what matters to you and your values. It's so incredibly powerful too, because I think what happens and what I see with you, especially, even though you have all of these different aspects of yourself, right?

You have all these different parts of yourself. You're not into a tiny little niche. I think you have been such an amazing role model for me of somebody who just shows up as yourself everywhere you go and you continue to like find people. I can't walk into a room or a restaurant or anything with Michelle without her meeting.

At least one or two people She knows and they know her all from completely different stuff. Like some of them might know you from your business. Some of them might know you from Creative Mornings. Some of them know you because they met you at a boxing class like. Share a little bit about that because I feel like you are one of those magnetic people who just shows up and lives your life, but you keep building these communities of people around you.

Michelle Mercurio: I think that the most interesting and hardest work I've ever had to do in my life is integrate all those personalities, and this is why I think that we do go places and always. You know, and Kevin says, my husband says the exact same thing. He is like, can you not know somebody? He's always excited to go someplace new, but we'll, we'll know somebody soon enough.

Don't worry, honey. Um, but it's because I think for so long and this, you know, take what you will with marketing and branding on this too, we're, I thought I had to be different personas based on where I was.

Yeah.

Michelle Mercurio: Right. So like, gimme your avatar, gimme your persona. Right. This is what drives me absolutely insane about marketing, um, and probably why I did branding for so long, and I still do it too.

Um, you know, but a lot of that, that work is the integration work. Like who are you talking to, nicheing to those values. Instead of the things that you do or what you want people to know about you. Okay, sorry, that's a different tangent. But coming back to your question about taking that and, and, and really building community, community can be [00:20:00] built off of a goal, right?

And an idea, and it's like, Hey, you know, so Creative mornings, oh, I value creativity, so I'm gonna go to Creative mornings and I'm gonna show up there. But what else do you value? What are some of those things that really drive who you are? You know, human connection, you know, fa being with people face to face, really being present for them.

Those are all values that I have, and that's why I have a lot of these communities and you know, some of those. Basic human things.

Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mercurio: We want to belong. Right. That was what we talked about already. Yeah. It's in our DNA, we want to connect, we want to be seen, held, loved, heard. We wanna do good things in the world for others.

Right. All of those communities have that under thread. Right. So whether you know, I'm, you're meeting somebody that I know, um, from one place or another, it's never the action or the. If you're in business, the service, that's the thing. It's the transformational stuff that's underneath. It's the, the things, it's the heart that drives it.

It's the love that drives it. It's, you know, that connection piece that drives it. And so all of those communities, whether they are, they're different, but the undercurrent is the same.

Racheal Cook: Well, and what I think I heard you start to go into a little bit is I feel like in business again, a lot of us, in creating that ideal customer avatar, we also start creating this like character that we play when we are out in the world as business owners.

And it's so inauthentic and people can feel it. Yeah. I think this is the big thing, like you. You can feel it online, but you could definitely feel it in person. And I know I'm not the only one who has met somebody who I had connected with or met online and then met them in person. I was like, whoa,

Michelle Mercurio: what happened?

Right?

Racheal Cook: What happened? Like what? What costume were you wearing online that suddenly the mask came off here and you're just completely different? And I think that's something I really admire about you is because, and I, when you and I first really got to know each other, it was like. I was drawn to you as a person.

'cause I was like, this is just an interesting person. Same. I loved how multifaceted you were and how many interests you had and how many things you were involved in. And I think that's what I want more entrepreneurs to lean into is you don't have to create a character of yourself or a character couture of yourself, and you don't have to give up all the aspects of yourself to fit this like.

Little box just because somebody told you. That's how you, you do marketing or show up, you know, in your business as the face of your business. Actually, I think the more little quirks and nuances and things that you share with us make you more interesting, which makes you more appealing to people.

Michelle Mercurio: I, every single client I have worked with has told me that the content that I've written for them is what they came for.

But what they actually left with is they didn't expect to have kind of their own personal reckoning and their own transition and realize that they really had to look inside themselves and kind of grow as a human, um, through brand work. Right. And I think that there's. Whether, you know, it's with branding, like I said before, or it's truly this coaching, it's, it's when you realize that this person that I am might not be exactly who I'm becoming.

Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mercurio: And that liminal space and that gap, you know, this is something that I'm, I'm doing a lot of research on right now. You know that that space of how we transform as humans, because we are all taught. To do certain things, and that's how we actually function. I mean, this is why we grow. If you look at the stages of development, if you look at childhood, you look at why teenagers try on all these identities, and then we pick one.

You know? And in my own personal life, I picked one. Right. And I picked, you know, I, I had other interests and stuff, but I was like, when I'm this person, I can't be this person. Uh, I will never forget a client telling me, you know, leaving their very first session with me and saying, oh, now I've gotta put on my professional shoes and go to work.

And I was like, let's, let's, at the end of this process, the shoes are the shoes. You or you,

Racheal Cook: yeah.

Michelle Mercurio: There, there's no other you that is going to show up. So when you are looking to finally get to that point where you don't have to put on a mask, or you don't have to play a character or a part or a persona anymore, and you can authentically be who you are.

Then that's something completely different. And I talk about this when I teach classes too, because I inevitably get the question, you know, well then, well, I can't just tell everybody everything. You know? There's a difference between private information and then personal information and public information, [00:25:00] and you wanna be in that personal and public persona.

Yes. But as that person, right, you don't wanna be playing a role. You wanna be the real you, not the role you.

Racheal Cook: And it takes practice and I think it takes a lot of healing and it also takes, in a lot of ways, I feel like, like the more I surround myself with communities of folks who are also on this journey and are willing to rumble with the vulnerability of showing up as yourself.

And not all communities are that way. A lot of, there's a lot of places in the world, whether it's businesses or organizations or any place you walk into where there's other humans. There's a lot where you armor up, right. With the role that, or the the character you are gonna play to keep yourself safe.

Yeah. But as small business owners, again, like I feel like the more that we wear that mask all the time. The more we're actually harming ourselves long term, because we're gonna get to the point where we're just done.

Michelle Mercurio: And others. Yeah. And others. We can't really, how can you expect others to transform if you aren't in that vulnerable space as well?

Yes. And it doesn't mean that you're processing everything on everybody. Correct. That's totally different. Right. That is a very different, you know, way to look at everything. You don't have to, to do your process in public, however. You do need to be real. And that's very uncomfortable. And you know, we are made to kind of shy away from that discomfort because that is what keeps us safe.

You know, that is an evolutionary thing that we humans have. And yet the more we lean into that, the more our comfort grows. And that's what growth really looks like in the end.

Racheal Cook: Absolutely. I wanna talk about. Community building with you, especially because you're coming up on five years of being the host for Creative Mornings, RVA in Richmond, Virginia.

Um, and you are stepping down from that role as the host

I am,

Racheal Cook: but in the last five years, I feel like watching this. Community evolve and change and grow has been one of the most incredible things. And one of the things you shared when you announced that you were stepping down as host was the greatest compliment people have shared is that now this community looks like Richmond.

It looks like the city we we live in. And I feel like that is such an achievement simply because. We are in a very diverse city where there have been a lot of silos and self-protection and not a diverse group of people coming together over shared values as often. Can you share a little bit about how you approached making this community more authentic and more of a real picture of the creatives who are in this city across all the spectrums here?

Michelle Mercurio: Yeah, I think that there's only so much growth that can happen in our own small siloed circles, right? Yeah. So. How did this, how did it occur? Well, first of all, it's not just me that did it, right. We have an amazing, uh, team that, you know, is part of that. I have a, what I call Lindsay, who I call my co-conspirator.

Um, and we, you know, but one of the very first things that I noticed when I first went to Creative Mornings is it, it was this kind of niched creativity. And our manifesto was more along the lines of everyone is creative and everyone is welcome. And I'm like, I'm looking around the room and I don't see everyone, you know, I do not see different.

There were some different races, but it was not diverse. I don't see different career paths. I don't see different ages. I don't see different, um, learning, you know, modalities. Right? I see a lot of same. Same. Although everybody is different and unique, and so I think the very first thing was like, what does our city even look like?

And, and taking a look at that, and you could apply this to your businesses as well and to, to life in general. Um, if you're evolving as a person, right? Take a look at your 10 closest friends. You know, what do they look like? Are they the same as you? Are they different? Right. Start asking those types of questions and doing that.

Uh, when you say building communities, right, whether you're building a community of, you know, a personal community or a professional community, what do you want your demographic to look like? And I, I hate using that word, but like, that's a, it's a, it's a common word to talk about. Mm-hmm. You know, the different, um.

Psychographics, social graphic, you know, like all of the, all of the graphics, right? The demographic of the, of your audience. And if it doesn't look like the people that are part of that larger community, then should it, and if so. [00:30:00] That takes concerted effort and that is not just like showing up and um, you know, especially in kind of the, the creative mornings or, you know, I've seen this in education as well when I worked in education.

It doesn't mean like you have to go in and be, you know, the, the whole idea of white saviorism and, and, and going in and, and. Really like saying, Hey, I've got the answer for you. But start talking to people, what is it that you really want? What is it that you really need? You know, what is it that you'd like to see us build?

And that doesn't mean that you're always doing consensus building to the point of changing your own trajectory. Mm-hmm. But when you're. Speaking about community and community goals and how to continue to add to that, you've gotta start with the basics of who's around me? Does that audience look like where we're headed in this shared pursuit?

And if not, where are those people and do they wanna come and what am I offering? And also, what can you know, what is it that they need? I think those ba, going back to those basics is where you start with that.

Racheal Cook: Yeah. And you have navigated this over the last five years, especially the reckoning in 2020 with Black Lives Matter in a city that has a huge black population.

That has been really amazing because. I feel like we've seen this conversation about diversity and embracing diversity and trying to build diverse communities kind of fade away with the current administration. But a lot of the amazing things that come out of that are the collaborative opportunities or the new businesses that are created, or the new ways that we're supporting each other, and it's.

I think one of the things I really love about watching you and the whole Creative Mornings team is your willingness to just go out there and meet people wherever they're at. Not waiting at the door for them to walk through the door, but instead going to meet them where they're at and inviting them in.

Michelle Mercurio: And maybe they don't wanna be invited in and that's fine too. They don't wanna, yeah. That means that we're still going and that's the other piece. Right. I think that there's a lot of, and I, I've seen it in this city and I've seen it with clients. Um, oh, I'm gonna build this thing, build it, and they will come.

Um, have you looked into what else is already built? Like, are you building something because you want it to be your, like this is one of those tough inner questions because you want it to be yours.

Racheal Cook: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mercurio: Or are you actually building it for the reasons that you truly say a community needs to exist? And that's why we get a lot of these things with nonprofits who are competing, who, you know, we're looking for funding.

Yeah, we're looking for these types of connections. Are you building it because you want to spearhead something for your ego? Asking myself this too, right? Yeah. Or are you actually building it because there is a need? And that's, that's a really interesting question to ask with businesses. And also with, um, like I said, nonprofits, community groups, education groups.

These are the things that you have to look at. You know, creative Mornings was established, and I'm not saying that, you know, but I'm not expecting Creative Mornings to be an answer for everybody. I'm not expecting my business to be an answer for everybody. Where is it that I have these gifts and my stances and how I can help?

Serve in this capacity and can I meet people where they already are? Do I have to build something completely new when you call people in as opposed to call them out? This is something that, you know, Ashley Williams does really well with the Well collective. I've learned that from her. Um, I've definitely overstepped in, especially after that reckoning.

I was thinking about this when, um, we were talking about, uh. Gun violence and guns in schools, you know, immediately I was like, oh, we should be having a rally. We should do, do all of these other things. Because I did feel so passionately about it and then I was like, guess what? There's a lot of communities there.

Maybe I need to join that community instead of starting something else myself.

Racheal Cook: And this leads to a new part of this conversation because I think in the entrepreneurship space, small business space, we often talk about ourselves as leading communities. And in some context that's true. But I think we also need to talk about the importance of joining other communities and not trying to always be, yeah.

The leader of everything. Um, because like with Creative Mornings, you were a part of an existing organization, you were the host, but it wasn't your organization only benefiting your business. It was part of something that's an international organization. Right. Um, and I, I think that's a really interesting thing to consider because a lot of times I'm seeing a lot of small business owners feeling like they have to build the community [00:35:00] and hold the community all on their own, but they actually could just.

Participate and be in community with other people.

Michelle Mercurio: Right. And I think that this is another thing that when we're thinking about businesses or even mm-hmm. Things that we wanna do to help, we could look at it from a standpoint of that again, that that three layers, five layers deeper than what we're looking at.

What is the true reasoning behind. Why we're doing this? What are these values? What am I attached to, you know, and where can I contribute? But maybe not have to. I mean, come on, we're all high achievers, right? Like this is the problem. And also the amazing thing about this community, um, I know you and I sometimes we're in the same room at different, at different events and we're like looking around and going, oh yeah, I don't know.

See any other high achievers in here? These people who are like pushing and doing and all of the things. Truly remarkable leaders. Correct. And you don't always have to be the one that's leading it.

Racheal Cook: Yeah. And I think that's kind of hard sometimes when that's your mo and that's kind of your instinct is I have to be the one in charge of all the things.

Michelle Mercurio: Yeah.

Racheal Cook: But that's

Michelle Mercurio: the

Racheal Cook: programming. Yeah, it is the programming. And I think this is part of like, you know, you hear a lot right now, like we all want to have the village, where's the village? But part of that is you have to be a villager. You have to be in community with folks. And I think that's sometimes hard for us.

Small business owners who wanna be in charge all the time. You have to take a backseat and not try to run everything right. Um, to participate and be a part of something bigger than just you. And the magic that happens then is so incredible when you're willing to put your ego to the side for a little bit.

Michelle Mercurio: I think that sometimes that safety and security idea of I don't do it myself, I'm not gonna get taken care of. It's really hard to be a member of community and not just be a leader of community. And this is what I see in a lot of businesses that I've worked with as well. Yeah. Um, people who are, you know, trying to.

Stake a claim for their own security. Not saying that that's a bad thing. I'm not discouraging anybody from doing this. What I am saying is that you also have to look at it from a place of, I love your analogy about like if you want a village, you have to also be a villager. And we are all, so, um, thinking about the leading of it, that pretty soon it becomes Jenga and it's top heavy.

And then all of a sudden there's a collapse because there isn't anything actually supporting that building.

Racheal Cook: Yeah. It's so interesting to think about all of these different elements that go into surrounding yourself with community and being a part of community. We started the whole conversation talking about being more authentic and allowing yourself to be more you and not putting on the mask, not putting, playing a character.

I'm curious, as somebody who is so involved in so many different communities, do you ever feel worried that it's risky or like you're too much when you show up in these communities? Tell me a little bit. Hell no. About,

Michelle Mercurio: but probably because, probably because of of my own work, right? Yeah. My own internal work.

Uh, sure. I used to feel that way a lot. A hundred percent. Um, especially when I was navigating. Being a leader in corporate and being an executive. You know, I, I think there was a lot of this is, if I'm not this way, do I fit in? And, um, do I sh do I worry about being too much now? I don't care. Um, then it might not be for me if that's the case, uh, you know, I think that there's.

There's that fine line. And I think that this is a lot of the same people. The, a lot of the people who come to me to try to find their voice and use their voice, or they're afraid to use their voice, it's because of kind of internal conditioning, right? Yeah. We were told that that wasn't allowed, whether it was upbringing through parents, whether it was teachers, whether it was being silenced in a community, whatever it is, right?

So that's internal work. Um. So the, the short answer is no. I absolutely don't feel that now, but it's because of a lot of different internal things that I've done. A lot of the work and the stories, the stories that we tell ourselves are sometimes the most detrimental. They can be the most empowering, but it can also be the most detrimental.

And so really systematically undoing those, like I work with clients all the time in my coaching practice to help them undo that, you know, whether that's through mm-hmm. You know, targeted hypnosis or whether that's. [00:40:00] Through, you know, different exercises that we, we do together and practices that we notice together.

Um, because that is a, that is a big fear, but I don't have it anymore.

Racheal Cook: It takes a lot of practice. Yeah. Um, and I think you're right. This is part of all of our journey here. If you are feeling like you're gonna be too much or be too different showing up in these different spaces, it does take a lot of practice with being okay with that, you know?

Discomfort of not knowing or, um, fear that might be showing up for you and being visible as yourself. I think that's, I think that a huge,

Michelle Mercurio: everybody thinks that immediately, you're just gonna get over it. How you get over it is tiny practice, tiny practices. Exactly. And it's practice for the rest of your life.

I'm not saying I'll never feel like that again. I'm not saying that there won't be something that I walk into and I'm like, mm-hmm. Nope. I can't do this. I can't say that there are sometimes when I am, you know, think that I'm going to be extrovert, Michelle, and I'm really introvert, Michelle, that I walk into.

I can't, I mean, I've walked into an event and once I remember telling you this, it's like I can't, people today, I don't know why I'm here and then really going, Hmm. It's time for me to go. Right? Yeah, and that's okay too. But learning yourself is going to help give you the compass to navigate that.

Racheal Cook: Yeah, you're gonna have to rumble with the discomfort all the time on this journey.

And I think it takes, like we said, it takes a lot of courage to be yourself all the time and not have that fear when you are navigating through communities or through your work and building all these relationships. You know, I think one of the things I hear from women entrepreneurs a lot is they hate the word networking because it feels so transactional.

And again, that I feel like that's a very fear-based place where they're being told this is how it should be, this is how networking should look. Pass out your business cards. Um, just to have a stack on the table that you never look at again. Can you share a little bit about. If you were to think about how do you actually build those genuine relationships, I think people need a little bit of insight into what it really looks like, because it doesn't come naturally for a lot of folks, even though it looks so natural when you walk through the room and are just talking to everybody.

I know that you weren't like born out of the womb doing that.

Michelle Mercurio: No, actually, two quick things. Uh, number one, I write about this a lot on my blog and on my weekly newsletter, so I talk about like connecting and, and doing it authentically a lot. Um, secondly, I have, because I was thinking particularly about this article I wrote about I'm a terrible networker and how like I go to an event and I don't even bring business cards anymore because I don't want anybody, I just don't.

Sometimes I have them. Good for me if I do. And if I don't, that's fine too. Um, I think that one of the ways that I look at having authentic connection with people is really curiosity. You know, everybody kind of wants to talk about themselves a little bit, even if they don't wanna talk about themselves a little bit.

So asking questions and learning about the other humans in the room. Um, I am, you know, I know a lot of people, I've met a lot of people, I know a lot of faces and sometimes I forget the names and it's okay to, it's okay to not be perfect, right? So. I don't do typical networking events. I look for people I'm interested in and I ask them questions, and that is, that's typically the best way to start to navigate that room.

Um. Funny story is that I think about back to my freshman year in high school, I joined theater class. And at the beginning, um, I couldn't even stand up in front of anybody or get two sentences out because I would just turn red. And then the class realized that and they'd be like, oh, Michelle's turning red, Michelle's turning red, Michelle's turning red.

And then it would just, I would just turn red just thinking about it. Um, and by the end of the year, I didn't turn red because it just kept getting up there. So. When you're thinking about these networking events, don't go into collect cards. This is not a game. This is not, you know, go into collect stories and, you know, even if you're just meeting one person who like you, feel some sort of spark of connection with that can make all the difference in what it is, uh, in your business, but also in your life.

I mean, that's really what it's for. You know, why are you hanging out with people that you might not have anything at all to talk about, like that makes for a really lame business and, and, and life.

Racheal Cook: Absolutely. And I think it's one of those things, again, when we make business more human, when we focus on building real relationships, it's such a shift from all the tips and tricks and hacks about having your, um, elevator pitch and your.

Business card ready to go. And I think the other [00:45:00] piece I wanna really add in there is that nothing happens overnight. You, if you wanna build relationships, like you have to keep showing up. Yeah. You can't show up to one community or one event and then be like, well, I didn't meet anybody. That was a waste.

I mean, how many years were you even going to Creative Mornings before you got more involved in it? I feel like,

Michelle Mercurio: well,

Racheal Cook: no, nevermind knowing you.

Michelle Mercurio: I did say one for that one now, but there are other things that it took a very long time for it to grow. Um, yeah. I will say too, when I teach my strategic networking course, or when I look at.

Some of the workshops that I give about ditch the Pitch, like that's a signature course or talk that I give at organizations and at conferences and stuff like that too. Yeah. It's, you know, I say don't have a condition, and I was a career coach for years and I also led hundred, I taught hundreds of career coaches how to coach people, and the elevator pitch was always a go-to thing.

But it's a connection killer. It's not a connection maker. What makes connections, questions. So how would you do a pitch? It's like, have you ever known somebody who, right, like, thinking about that, like, have you ever known somebody who is supporting, uh, other people through their transitions because they don't actually know what to say?

When they introduce themselves, well, that's what I do. What do you do? Like, tell me a little bit more about that. Like actually leading with the questions as a hook as opposed to like, when I give you a name and a title, you're like, oh, that's nice. Crickets. Right? Like the, it drops off. So when you go into these networking events, it is an investment of your time and it is also like, do you even wanna be there?

Do you want to eventually connect with somebody? If so, you have to keep coming.

Racheal Cook: Yeah, and like everything in life and in business, like good things take time. They take effort. They take being intentional. And if you want to surround yourself with other folks, if you wanna find your people, sometimes you just gotta keep putting yourself out there.

Until you do find the right community, you might have to, you know, go to a few that you just don't vibe with until you find the one where you're just curious enough about it. Or like, okay, I'm gonna keep showing up here. I think there might be something that I'm enjoying here.

Michelle Mercurio: People who are successful are just people who didn't give up.

And that's really the truth. People who are in business are people who didn't quit being in business. People who are executives or people who didn't necessarily, uh, quit being involved and fighting toward those things that they want to, you know, move toward. Right? So that's, that's what it is. Now, I'm not saying don't quit.

Things that aren't aligned do that ev every day of the week. But there are other things that when you keep showing up, the results come.

Racheal Cook: Yeah, I think so many great nuggets from this conversation, Michelle, from being more you to surrounding yourself in community, being a part of a community. Not always having to be the leader in order to be a part of it.

True. Friends. Um, I'm curious, what is lighting you up right now about your work or your communities you're a part of? What are you most excited about right now?

Michelle Mercurio: Oh my gosh. So many things. I think that I'm in a period of growth through letting go.

Racheal Cook: Mm-hmm.

Michelle Mercurio: So, uh, like I am also in my own liminal space of transitions, but what I am emerging into is really, I think the thing that is lighting me up the most is working with people who.

Are also finding that next step. Um, so working with coaching, working on some of the witchy things that are coming, and especially for next year, for 2026, I've got two new, uh, I've got a class coming out and a, uh, a community group through, uh, like witchy practices that I'm excited about. Um, I'm writing again.

Like for me, not just for clients, which is beautiful and lovely, and finding my own creative spark again, I think that's also what's lighting me up. Um, you know, we can spend all of our time doing business and work and all of that. We could spend all our time avoiding that and doing vacationing. But it's, it's nice when they kind of blend together, like remembering who I am without having some of the attachments to some of the roles that I've held recently.

Racheal Cook: For any listeners who are wanting to either build a more authentic community or be a part of a more authentic community, what is one powerful action they can take?

Michelle Mercurio: I mean, if you're, join your local creative mornings, definitely. Um, and also I think that, I know that's the one action, but I write a lot about communities on my email, um, newsletter called [00:50:00] The Message.

So subscribe to the message if you don't. Like it, you can always unsubscribe. Um, I'm always trying to call different people in to, um, think about things differently and highlight different ways to approach things. So that would be for me, if you wanna connect with me, that's the way to do it. And, um, also look up and see where your local creative mornings is.

Racheal Cook: I have

Michelle Mercurio: mine. Even there's virtual, I'll

Racheal Cook: add links to everything. Um, in the show notes for everyone, y'all, Michelle has an incredible newsletter that goes out on Friday mornings, and I always look forward to reading it because she always makes you think about something, um, from a different angle, a different perspective, and.

It always pushes me a little bit just outside of that little comfort zone, which

yeah,

Racheal Cook: we all need to have done regularly. So I appreciate that you are that person for me in my inbox, but also in my life. So as we wrap up, Michelle, people can find you online@michellemecarillo.com. They can still come to check out Creative Mornings Richmond.

'cause you will still be a part of that. Oh yeah. Um, anywhere else you want people to connect with you.

Michelle Mercurio: I think that's primarily it. Connect with me on LinkedIn, uh, Michelle Mercurio, um, and then mish meck on Instagram.

Racheal Cook: Perfect. Well, thank you so much for jumping on with me today. It was so much fun to chat.

Thank you. And just let this conversation go everywhere it went.

Michelle Mercurio: Yes. Thank you so much for having me and also for helping guide and lead me into, uh, repeating all of the things that I get to do in my business and clarifying it for me as well. So I appreciate you endlessly.

Racheal Cook: Oh, thank you so much, friend.

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